Interview Martin Fry
Interview Glenn Gregory
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Back in the summer of 1997 Melvin Welters did a very lengthy interview with Glenn Gregory, the singer in Heaven 17 who collaborated with Martin Fry on ABC's new record Skyscraping. The interview with an enthusiastic and inspired Glenn was originally published in the ABC fanzine 'A to Z'. You'll find the full interview with Glenn spread over three pages. Ladies and gentlemen: Glenn Gregory on Heaven 17, Ugly, The Magic Skulls and ABC.

MW: When did you decide that you wanted to be a singer and why?
GG: I was about 14, It was Friday afternoon about 12.25, I was eating a bag of chips when a school friend (Martin Brown) called to me from his bedroom window, "Glenn come up here I've got something you've just got to listen to". I sauntered over the road finishing my chips and depositing the greasy paper on Mrs. Brown's well kept lawn. As I entered the kitchen, Mrs. Brown was just leaving the house to go back to work "and pick that bloody chip paper up" she said.

Martin had just bought a new single, in fact Martin Brown had just bought the best 7 inch single ever made. Roxy Music, Pyjamarama. "You are going to love this" he enthused, he put the record on, and he was not wrong, I did absolutely love it. We must have played that single fifty times in a row and we certainly didn't bother going back to school that afternoon, and it was that very afternoon, while listening to the weird and wonderful sounds of Roxy Music that I decided that that was what I wanted to do, I wanted to be the singer in a band.

So thanks Martin Brown you probably don't even know it but it's thanks to you, and your superb taste in music that I am doing what I am doing today. Oh and Mrs. Brown, I'm sorry for not picking up that greasy chip paper.

MW: When you joined Martyn Ware and Ian Craig Marsh what were your ambitions? And when you look back 15 years later did you fulfil them?
GG: When I joined Martyn and Ian to become the singer in Heaven 17, I think collectively our ambitions were to make a record that was successful that people would respect, and would be played on the radio as well as in clubs. Well I think we achieved that ambition too, when we released Fascist Groove Thang we were totally surprised to find that it was single of the week in both NME and Melody Maker. We were also surprised to find that Radio One would not play it because of it's political content, but as a first release it certainly did get us noticed. I think since then all our ambitions mount up to just one thing, and that's having a good time, and carrying on with Heaven 17 for just as long as we are all enjoying it.

MW: It took the three of you a long time to come up with 'Bigger than America' after 'Teddybear Duke and Psycho'. Martyn and Ian were busy working with other people but we didn't hear much from you. How did you spend your time?
GG: So you want to know what I was doing between the last Heaven 17 record and this one. Well after Teddy Bear, Duke, and Psycho, we decided to have a rest from Heaven 17ing, and as you know Martyn carried on producing other bands and singers, Ian also got involved in this (another BEF album) but I was never really keen on producing, I preferred to write, so I set about working with lots of different people basically learning how to write songs that were not Heaven 17 songs. Along the way, in fact while working with Claudia Brucken from Propaganda, I met John Uriel with whom I formed the band Ugly. There was a 14 month period where I was working back in Sheffield on a project that I thought had loads of potential but unfourtunatly fizzeld out. Now that might not seem like 4 or 5 years, but add an absolute huge amount of fun and going out, and believe me it is.

MW: The tendency with a lot of artists these days seems to be that it takes a long time to come up with a new album(ABC, Heaven 17, Prefab Sprout, A Certain Ratio and so on). It used to be an album every two years. Can you see a reason for this?
GG: The reason Heaven 17's new album took so long, is the fact that we were not working together as Heaven 17 for about 6 years, and in fact when we decided the time was right for us to work together again, the songs came thick and fast. It was a real pleasure to be working as a band again, it was fresh and we'd all learnt a lot in the intervening years and it was exiting to record the new album. I can recommend to any band out there if your ideas are getting a little stale, take eight years off, it works wonders. The other reason bands take longer to make records I guess, is the fact that you start doing other things, like having a life, falling in love, having babies, getting divorced, falling in love, having holidays, then you make another album using all these new and fresh experiences. It all makes perfect sense.

MW: What's the best Heaven 17 track and album in your opinion and why?
GG: What's my favourite Heaven 17 album and my favourite Heaven 17 track.......Let me think of my favourite track first...........................(a little later). Oh I don't know........I suppose it's not that hard really . My favourite Heaven 17 track is................Let Me Go. And now you want to know why. Well, I think it's the song we all feel should have done better, It's almost the song I would like to be remembered for (but I guess that's going to be Temptation) It took a lot of getting right but once we were there we all really loved it , we were convinced it was a top ten hit (it wasn't). Maybe there's still time?
The best album though I have no problem with, Penthouse and Pavement. My first ever recordings, and nothing can better that experience.

MW:: Your debut album in 1981 was very successful (comparable to ABC's lexicon of love). Every subsequent release was compared to that initial success, how do you feel about that?
GG: Fine, our first album was a success and I suppose your right every other album will be compared to that, but although people remember Penthouse and Pavement as our most successful album, it was is in fact the songs from the second album, The Luxury Gap that did the best chart wise and sales wise . So no matter if anyone says, yes but they will never better their first album, we already did, But to be honest, as I said Penthouse and Pavement is my favourite Heaven 17 album,.............. so far anyway.

MW: What's it like being a pop star?
GG: Absolutely fantastic, no downside what so ever, but then again I'm not Liam Gallagher am I.

MW: How did you get to duet with Martin Fry for the soundtrack of 'When Saturday Comes' and why did you rerecord the track for Skyscraping'?
GG: I've been friends with Martin Fry for years, and we had often talked about doing a song together. I was asked to do a track for the film When Saturday Comes and the producers asked if I new any other bands or singers from Sheffield (it was originally going to be a totally Sheffield soundtrack) that would be good for the film. Anyway I gave Martin a call and he immediately came up with the idea of doing something together. The films producers liked the idea so that was it we started work the next week. We wrote two songs together for the film, but only Seven Day Weekend appears on the soundtrack. The other song is called, Carry Me Home, which is quite apt really as every time I go out drinking with Martin Fry, that's exactly what someone has to do. The reason that Seven Day Weekend is on the ABC album is that the we felt the film was rubbish, but Martin still thought the track was good and deserved to be heard.

MW: What's the difference between doing an album with Heaven 17 and doing an album with ABC?
GG: What's the difference between doing an album with Heaven 17 and doing an album with ABC. That sounds like a joke that needs a punchline, answers on a postcard please. Actually not much difference really, same amount of drinking, same amount of fun, same amount of arguing, same amount of late nights, but a lot less singing. That's about it, working with friends is always good fun.

MW: It seems difficult for Heaven 17 and ABC to have chart success these days. What do you think the reason is for this, and do you care about it?
GG: The reason that we or ABC have not had the hits recently is to be honest not a surprise to me, at the moment everything is so very neatly compartmentalised and I'm afraid we just don't seem to fit in, but that's not to say a slot wont open up soon, then just you see it will be like we've never been away.

MW: How would you describe the Heaven 17 fan base?
GG: Patient

MW: I heard when you started making music with Fry and Lowndes as the Magic Skulls you were making very long Techno instrumentals. The final result of the ABC album was very different. Why the change in style?
GG: I started working with Keith on a project with John McGeoch (of Magazine & Souixe and the Banshees Fame) we were writing and recording up in Sheffield for about a year. The songs were very good in a kind of U2 dance style, but for whatever reason the band (which never had a name) split up before ever playing live or releasing anything. Keith and I decided though that we would keep on working together as we made a very good writing team. We started writing songs for me to sing, we didn't know if it would be a band or maybe a Glenn Gregory solo project. It was during this period that Keith and I started to work with Martin . It was just for a bit of fun really, we were writing stuff that we wouldn't normally do (even though we liked it) so as quite often happens the end result was something very good and very interesting, and as Martin was involved with Deconstruction Records some of the tracks did actually come out on white label. It was after this initial writing period that we realised we all worked well together, and we decided to have a go at writing some tracks especially for Martin in a new ABC styleee. The original songs we had written as The Magic Skulls were not really suitable for an ABC album, but it didn't take us long to settle in to a new style, and I must say I think the songs we have written together are some of the best I have been involved with. Keith and I are still writing songs for me to sing and they are good, so I guess one day they will be released.

MW: Did the Magic Skulls put anything to tape? Is it in the vaults and are there plans to release it in any form?
GG: The only release of Magic Skulls Material was as I said on white label. It was a three track EP featuring Martin on one side on a version of the Joy Division track Transmission, and on the other side two instrumentals, ROKU and Screamer. There are about six other tracks recorded and in Martin's safe hands, you never know, one day they may see the light of day.

MW: In the last edition of A to Z Martin Fry compared production to photography. How do you experience production?
GG: I have always preferred the writing and recording phase of song production to the mixing stage. I think there are so many different ways to go with a song up to that final point, that when it's time to stop recording and start putting the track down I get freaked out, maybe it needs more of this or less of that, it's such a malleable thing, you really have to have a strong idea of what you want to get the result you desire, and I must admit working with Heaven 17 I can relax a bit on the final stage but with ABC it was all hands on deck, full concentration required. I think it was really the first time I'd ever actually produced (Co produced) a record, and you know what, it's not that scary after all, but it's a lot easier taking pictures.

MW: Tell us a little more about your Ugly period and where did the bands name come from?
GG: The band Ugly consisted of Myself, John Uriel and Ian Wright (not the Arsenal footballer). We had one record released on the Nutbush label, which was called, Boom the Future, the video for which was directed by Andrew McPherson, the famous fashion photographer (his first ever). There are about another seven songs recorded, three to completion. They were produced by Gareth Jones (He's produced two of Erasure's albums as well as many others). The unfortunate timing of our first release meant that it came out on the same week as the Brothers in Rhythm remix of Temptation, as you know that went to number 2 in the charts, so poor old Ugly didn't get a look in. And that unfortunately was the end of Ugly...... for now at least.
I wanted to call the band Ugly because I really liked the look of the word written down, it's very strong and emotive. We were going to call the album Beautiful. So it would have read, Ugly Beautiful. Which as you know is the name of the Baby Bird album. Strange EH !.

MW: You have done a few live shows with Heaven 17. What kind of experience was that for you and how was playing with Erasure?
GG: Heaven 17 have just played a number of gigs and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. We started of with a few low key gigs in clubs around Britain (these were our first ever) ending with a show at Heaven in London, which was packed to the rafters and more fun than should be legal, then we had a day off before playing at Birmingham NEC in front of ten thousand people. Can you imagine it only my fourth ever gig and there are ten thousand people watching....... whoow just a bit on the nervous side, but it went very well, as did the rest of them. I'm sure it won't be long before we play again.

MW: Imagine you had to leave for another planet and you could only take a few albums with you on board the spaceship. What records would you take there with you?
GG: Why o why is this happening to me? To wake up this morning to find I have half an hour to pack my bag's and leave the planet, my what a strange day, But what records am I going to take, how long am I going to be away, you see that has some relevance as to which record's I might take, am I to take song's to listen to on the trip, or is this goodbye Earth forever, goodbye record collection forever. O.K I'll assume that this is my last half hour on the planet earth forever, thirty minutes before I will move on to another planet, and I've got to choose a few record's to take with me that will be the only music I'll here for the next, however many years. Well 25 minutes left only 300 CD's to choose from, should be easy enough.
The first record in the backpack is easy enough, Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry Street Life (greatest hit's compilation) it's the only album with Pyjamarama on it, plus 19 other great tracks. Shit, I sound like an advert, I'd better get on with the choosing the rocket leaves in 17 minutes.
Second record in the backpack is. Radiohead, The Bends. This is at the moment still my favourite record, and well deserve's it's place. I'm sure I'll be playing this one for the next 50 years.
OK record number 3 in the bag is ............come on, come on not long left!. I know, Travelogue, The Human League. Old fashioned space age music to carry me to my next interplanetary destination, and quite seriously one of my favourite albums ever.
Record number 4, how many can I take how long left 15 minutes, right. Ash 1977. Not an obvious choice but I just love the album it make and everybody should be happy in space.
Next record is David Bowie, Hunky Dory, or Space Oddity, or Low, or Diamond Dogs, or Young Americans, or Station to Station, or Aladdin Sane, or Ziggy Stardust. Oh shit look I'll have to take them all, unpack the food, put in the record's, I'll get something to eat on Mars.
I'm running out of time. One more record,only 2 minutes to choose. Arghhh, this is to hard. Last record. Leftfield, Leftism. God how did I nearly leave that one behind, I play it all the time. Oh and yes, one more, Smashing Pumpkins, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. I love that album, what a bargain 28 songs on one record.
Right, I'm ready ...................... What do you mean , I've missed the bloody rocket ............. What times the next one?.

MW: Both the new ABC album and the Heaven 17 album return to authentic sounds, containing elements from the early 80's/late 70's. Is this just the current trend and will there be a return to contemporary sounds in the future?
GG: The reason that the new Heaven 17 album, Bigger Than America uses such sounds is a deliberate move on our part to explore a way of writing we felt we had left unfinished. As you know our first album, Penthouse and Pavement, had two distinct sides, the Pavement side featured heavily electronic sounds, while on the Penthouse side we used more real instruments, and some other musicians. From that point on we followed the latter of the two paths, leaning more and more as we went along on other player's bigger orcehestra's etc to create our sound. When we came back to work together again, the first thing we all wanted to say was that we wanted the new Heaven 17 album to be the purest yet, just the three of us, and as purely electronic as we could make it.
This entailed us re-buying a lot of old analogue stuff we used years ago and re-learning to programme them. Even though the instruments we used were old, the sounds the make are totally contemporary, as it is within these early electronic instruments that the beginning of dance music has it's roots.
So even though the new album was written using old instrument's (we did use modern sequencers) I believe it's sound is totally contemporary. But that was a one off return to innocence, and the next Heaven 17 record I'm sure will use all the technology it can muster to make it a huge hit.
The ABC album, well there's a different story. We actually went further back to look for inspiration there. we listened to very early Roxy Music, early David Bowie, and quite a lot of Brian Eno we took influences from. We got really excited about music we used to love, then just wrote the songs. Most of them were written on guitar (played by the multi talented Keith Lowndes) then programmed up at Martins house, and recorded for real at Bunk Junk and Genius, a studio in London. I think the sound of the album is pretty timeless, and I think the songs are very good....... and I'll fight anybody that disagrees.

MW: My favourite track on the Bigger Than America album is Freak. The rhythm to this is almost Hip Hop. Are there plans to release it as a single?
GG: I didn't like this track for ages, but I must admit since performing it live, it really has started to grow on me. The last Heaven 17 track that came out as a single that I didn't like at the time was Temptation. Just goes to show, don't listen to me. So yeah maybe it should be a single.

MW: ABC will tour again in June. Will you accompany them on this tour or make a guest appearance.
GG: Well I will certainly go and see them! Now that I've had the practice of singing and performing live who knows what inspiration might become me. If I did jump on stage it would probably be in Sheffield (our Home turf) and I'm sure Martin would love it?

MW: What's the future with Heaven 17 and will you work with ABC in the future again?
GG: Heaven 17's immediate future will consist of us writing a new album, playing a few more live dates (it took us over ten years to start now you stop us and after that who knows. As long as it keeps being fun and interesting we'll be there. Yes I hope to be writing with Keith and Martin again soon to start work on further ABC songs........ A lot of work, but a lot of fun.